May 14, 2009
Town Meeting Moderator started the meeting with a long drawn out discussion describing how he will try to be impartial by following the rules of the meeting published in our Town Reports. BCC is opening up the discussion asking the website viewer for their observations on how did Imse do?
Here are a few observations to get the discussions started: Imse stated that the State Attorney General suggested that he appoint someone else count the ballots because Imse promoted his bias against in a letter to the editor. Imse appointed a well respected Bow citizen to oversee counting the ballots, John Lyford but John is a well know opponent to SB2. If Imse would have chosen a well respected Bow Citizen who was an SB2 supporter to oversee the counting of the ballots his credibility would be much better.
For a period of time Imse allowed the Recycle Committee Rep. to rebut Bow Citizen’s comments. This breaks the rules of allowing all the speakers to speak once before a repeat speaker. In fairness to Imse he recognized that this was not appropriate and stopped the practice but it should not have been allowed from the start. A well know citizen was immediately challenged for doing just trying to speak twice before every one else got their first shot. Imse’s double standard was apparent when he quickly stopped this citizen from speaking and not doing the same with the recycle committee..
Imse also failed to recognize a motion to call the question. The motion was seconded so Imse has no excuses for not recognizing the motion. The person was even asked to recognize himself for the record on the motion.
Bow Town Manager who is not a Bow Citizen or voter was given free reign to express his opinion on a matter. The town manager should only be addressing a direct question and response should only be made in fact expressing his opinion is not appropriate and Imse should recognize that.
Imse is well aware that a motion to restrict reconsideration is non debatable he almost allowed debate on the issue but well informed voters expressed stopped his attempt.
BCC viewers are encouraged to add their two cents worth in the comments section.
Thanks BCC for allowing us to voice our frustration. Here is my observation. When the ballots that were cast for Town Employee pay increases the majority of the counters were town employees. Did anyone else notice that?
I felt so sorry for those people who signed the petition for secret ballots. I would be so afraid to do that. I am so gratefull to those who did.
Thank-you brave people.
Cool website! I missed town mtg because I was at work. I voted for SB2 not to arbitrarily keep taxes down, but so I could vote and contribute. Tom I’ve been reading your posts and just wanted to correct one thing. Ref. the ambulance, Concord actually has five ambulances, three in service and two reserve. I’m not familiar with the condition of Bow’s second ambulance, but I don’t think it’s fair for Concord Fire to be our back up. Perhaps another solution can be found, rental maybe.
Your right on the money about about how we hide and allocate money. I’ve wondered for years where do bond payments go once they’ve been paid off? For instance, when I pay my car off the monthly payment goes into my savings. I don’t automatically spend it again because I’m used to it. I feel that that is exactly what city’s and the school does. Concord School’s keep a retiree’s salary in the budget even though he/she’s replaced with a lower paid employee!
PAYT, I’m glad it got voted down. Here’s a suggestion, let’s bring back the transfer station, get rid of curbside pick-up. W/O the $800,000 curbside bill I’d entertain PAYT.
One last thing, I’m not sure what article it is, but I believe there is a vote of reconfirmation of a fire department replacement fund and whether or not it includes a ladder truck. I believe that between 5-10 yrs. ago this came up and it was defeated. Bow does not need a ladder truck! We are surrounded by them.
My two cents is that this discussion isn’t worth two cents.
APO- You couldn’t say a good thing about Imse’s performance. I can. I think it it is good that he is taking in consideration some of concerns addressed on this website so kudos to him.
I loved the cards, I think they worked well and we didn’t have to deal with people screaming their vote and the voter fraud that we saw at the school meeting.
What I didn’t like was Imse’s treatment of those who signed the petition for secret ballot. What he did was pure intimidation. The law states that 5 voters can ask for a ballot vote once he got to the 5th voter he could stop but oh no he went on. It would be easy to come up with a way to check if there check if someone was here with out the intimidation factor.
I love the secret ballot. If people are so concerned about the time it takes to vote demand shorter presentations. The multiple infromercials at the town meeting was ridicules.
Yeswecan, I did notice the majority of vote counters for town employee were also town employees. I don’t think that mattered but a moderator must take all precautions to avoid any potential conflict of interests just like this.
Taxed2-I agree with you I don’t think the Town employees counting the votes for town employee pay increases made a difference it just looked bad.
I also agree with you about the secret ballot petitioners. Imse gave the impression that he was punishing them for their right to ask for a secret ballot in his juvenile roll call type intimidation style. Maybe we should have all the town employees raise their hands or teachers raise their hands before votes we vote on their pay next year. The previous statement was said tongue and cheek. No one should be intimidated when voting times comes.
Bowtaxpayer, welcome!!
Bow does not need a ladder truck! We are surrounded by them. What a great line. What that means is that if there is a fire that requires a ladder truck Concord/Hooksett/Manchester (Hackett Hill) all have one.
To get a ladder truck for Bow it will require a new fire house. Do we really need one. No!
Bowtaxpayer you are a smart Bow Taxpayer.
Also getting rid of curb side service and going back to a transfer station that mandates recycling is a much better direction.
We need to stop these 30 minute presentations. Okay, I can see it for the budget process because when they didn’t do it we just slashed helter skelter. As mind numbing as it was to listen to at times (thanks to Mr. Monotone himself), we needed to hear that.
We did NOT need to hear a 30 minute presentation on PAYT. Were there questions yes, but there was no need for a presentation of length. That committee shot themselves in the foot by trying to pass this as ‘education.’ I have my serious doubts about Ms. Treybig.
The voter cards was an excelent thing. We didn’t have people shouting one way or the other. It seemed to work well.
I personally would much rather have a ‘press’ section in the auditorium, and the non-voters be kept out of the room entirely. I know that with the cards this was taken care of, but I had severe issues with students holding up signs at the SB meeting and nothing was done.
We were already pushing 8 o’clock before the business at hand got started. Let’s keep the sining to one song shall we. They did 3 at the SB meeting and I think we all know why and that was to try and calm people down.
We are to have a re-convened meeting are we not?
RE: Petition for secret ballots
I was one of the signers of this petition. I believe that this petition is a public document and if Mr Imse did not read the names, anyone present could have requested him to do so as it is a public document. Was it necessary to read the names each and every time, probably not? Was it meant for intimidation, possibly.
I am also a supporter of SB-2 as what went on at this Town and School District meetings is a good example of the lack of good debate and legitimate information on the subjects to be voted on at Town & School meetings. It was evident that most that attended were small interest groups deciding outcomes that affect everyone in Town. Why shouldn’t everyone be able to vote at a convenient time and place that affects there taxes? Or by absentee ballot? I will assure you that SB-2 will be back again next year for a vote.
RE: non residents/voters
I do not believe that any non-voters should be in the auditorium where the Town or School Meeting is being conducted for any reason including non-resident Town & school officials. They shopuld be kept in another room to listen only. Officials should be called in as needed for informational purposes only.
RE: Use of Voter cards
Excellent idea for current Town Meeting but ballot votes on election day under SB-2 would be much better.
RE: PAYT presentation
Quote from moderators rules: “If the Motion is seconded, the Moderator will recognize a member of the Board of Selectmen/School Board or the petitioner to explain the Article.”
Quote from moderators rules: “14. With the exception of initial presentations on Articles which the Moderator requests be limited to ten (10) minutes, all speakers in debate will be limited to three (3) minutes.
A 30 minute presentation was out of order according to the moderators own rules. Why didn’t sometime over rule him with a motion to do so? Again most people do not read the rules.
I supported PAYT as I have always been a supporter/proponent of user fees to reduce taxation from the revenue side of budgets where people who use certain extra non essential services pay for what they use like school extra & co-curricular activities, recreation activities and trash pick-up services etc. just to name a few. I do not believe that I should be responsible for all your trash pick-up.
Again the lack or good debate and information was evident here as well as all we heard were people giving examples of all the selfish reasons to not support PAYT as they were laughable at best. Bags, bags breaking, bears, animals, snow storms, winter, cost of bags, refrigerators, tires, illegal dumping…give me a break. The best was the person who asked if refrigerators would fit in the PAYT bags!!
When are people going to be responsible for their own trash that they creat themselves?
But on the other hand I would support eliminating trash pick-up altogether as someone mentioned in an earlier post here on this forum and going back to a transfer station as we used to have here in Bow. Please remember that trash pick-up was only supposed to be temporary according to our Town Officials….you know those Town Officials that say “we are from the government and we are here to help”.
RE: The ambulance & Warrant Article #9
This ambulance warrant article request is a very misleading request in that the Selectmen and Asst Fire Chief want you to believe that it is to replace a 2nd ambulance when it is not. We have 1 first line ambulance and 1 spare ambulance currently.
Let me give some history to this subject and you come to your own conclusions.
We currently and correctly have a 3 1/2 year old first line ambulance (A1) and a spare ambulance (A2).
When we replaced the first line ambulance in 2005 which we saved for in our CIP funds we (the Budget Committee) recommended that we keep the older ambulance as a spare ambulance because we were to get only $2500 trade -in for it toward the new ambulance and it was still in very good condition to be able to keep as a spare.
If you remember back in 2004-05 +/- our first line ambulance was involved in an accident on I-93 and was out of commission for several weeks being repaired. The good people of Chichester NH let Bow borrow one of their two spare ambulances at the time to use while ours was being repaired. We figured that it was worth the loss of the $2500 +/- trade-in to keep ours as a very good spare. It was labeled A2 by the FD and the new ambulance A1. It was removed from the CIP fund rolls as well at the time of replacement in 2005.
Now to mislead you even further in 2009 it is mysteriously appears back in the CIP fund and up for replacement again in Warrant Article #9 to be replaced using $85,000 in fund balance money as well as by raising $85,000 in new taxes.
We have been told by the Asst Fire Chief and the Town Manager that it is in poor condition with steering problems, rust holes (in aluminum body), electrical problems ( satisfactorily fixed some time ago) and starting problems (also fixed some time ago and was due to a poor diagnosis of the problem to begin with by the DPW garage). As most of you know from your own vehicles that most if not all of these problems would not pass NH motor vehicle inspections which were conducted back in March 2009 but it is still on the road and used once a week. Were these conditions made up excuses or legitimate? Still have not got all the answers to this!
This spare ambulance is still in good enough condition to serve Bow well in its capacity as a “spare” ambulance.
We were told that there is not enough equipment to man both ambulances at the same time. This is true because when they put A2 in service each week they have to switch over much equipment from A1 to A2 in order to put it into service.
We were told that there are 25 +/- EMT qualified call & full time personal to man this 2nd ambulance with no problem but as is the case during the day time hours we cannot man a 2nd ambulance consistently and sometimes not even the 1st ambulance when a call comes in and Concord Area Fire Compact dispatch has to call for a mutual aid from out of town which is why we belong to the Compact in the first place by the way. Information to verify this has been asked for back on April 16th and has been very slow at coming forward.
Tom Keane mentioned in one of his Selectman’s Reports that the ambulances in Bow made approximately 1000 runs/calls and I quote: “Bow does about 1,000 calls per year and wants two ambulances. Concord has about 10,000 runs per year and has three ambulances. This year Bow’s main ambulance and the back up were out simultaneously only 30 times. We participate in a mutual aid compact with the surrounding towns for just such a situation.”
Note: bowtaxpayer says, “Ref. the ambulance, Concord actually has five ambulances, three in service and two reserves.”
This is what Bow actually made for runs/calls according to the Town Manager:
2006
A1: 413 runs
A2: 115 runs, of which 22 were simultaneous.
Total: 528 runs
2007
A1: 496 runs
A2: 160 runs, of which 34 were simultaneous
Total: 656 runs
.
2008
A1: 489 runs
A2: 150 runs, of which 30 were simultaneous.
Total: 639 runs
When asked about how many runs that Bow could not make due to lack of personnel and the Fire Compact had to cover for Bow (also asked for the times of day that these occurred), I am still awaiting that information which was asked for back on April 16th. (Now you know why they oppose SB-2 and want un-informed voters at a Town meeting where they can control information & outcomes).
I do not support this WA#9 at this time ( maybe a year or two down the road) because I believe it to be a “want” and not a “need”.
This WA #9 should be asking the voters of Bow if we want to purchase a 2nd full time ambulance which has not been saved for in the CIP funding accounts and to spend extra money in addition to the $173,000 to equip and staff a 2nd full time ambulance.
This is one of those items/issues of separating “wants” from “needs”. Is this a “wanted” item or a “needed” item. If it is a needed item then make a case for it and sell it to me.
DON’T TRY TO PASS IT OFF FOR SOMETHING IT IS NOT !!!
Ask the obvious questions on this before you decide on this ambulance ….because their scare & intimidation tactics are coming at Town Meeting.
Looking at what has happened with the special interest groups at this year’s Town Meeting in session #1, so much for no increase in taxes.
There are many more spending items coming up in sessions #2 and maybe #3. Stay tuned I guess.
bowtaxpayer says:
“Cool website! I missed town mtg because I was at work. I voted for SB2 not to arbitrarily keep taxes down, but so I could vote and contribute. Tom I’ve been reading your posts and just wanted to correct one thing. Ref. the ambulance, Concord actually has five ambulances, three in service and two reserve. I’m not familiar with the condition of Bow’s second ambulance, but I don’t think it’s fair for Concord Fire to be our back up. Perhaps another solution can be found, rental maybe.”
FYI:
Concord, Bow and many surrounding Towns participate in the Capital Region Fire Compact to which we (Bow taxpayers) pay approximately $75,000 annually to be part of for this very reason to have back-up and help when we need it. It also allows our Bow FD to be called to other Towns and cities (like Concord) to help them when they are in need of additional help.
bowtaxpayer says:
“Your right on the money about about how we hide and allocate money. I’ve wondered for years where do bond payments go once they’ve been paid off? For instance, when I pay my car off the monthly payment goes into my savings. I don’t automatically spend it again because I’m used to it. I feel that that is exactly what city’s and the school does.”
FYI:
When bonds are paid in full the (principle and interest) lines in Bow’s budgets are then borught to zero and are not budgeted for any other reasons.
bowtaxpayer says:
“PAYT, I’m glad it got voted down. Here’s a suggestion, let’s bring back the transfer station, get rid of curbside pick-up. W/O the $800,000 curbside bill I’d entertain PAYT.”
FYI:
I agree with you here.
Rick Hiland:
“Why didn’t sometime (some one) over rule him with a motion to do so? Again most people do not read the rules.”
By your own statement you were at the meeting: “I was one of the signers of this petition”. Why didn’t you raise the point of order at the time? I am confident you had read the rules prior to the meeting. Wouldn’t it serve us all better if you did the right thing at the right time rather provide a lengthy written harangue after the fact?
To APOVinBOW:
I hear you. I supported PAYT and I have always been a supporter of allowing people to become informed voters and to be honest I went with the flow thinking there were many who had not seen the presentation as I have seen it twice before. I was only making a point to the folks who objected to the lengthy presentation that they had an option.
This is by far the most informative website anywhere about Bow issues. bownet.org is good but 100% one sided, the town website the exact same way.
Though I do not agree with Mr. Hiland 100% his insight is fantastic. I did not support pay as you through but very much like pursuing a transfer station that recycles everything from tin cans to refrigerators. If Bow really did their homework they would fine there is good money out there recycling this stuff that was before taken as a loss. This information comes from someone I trust very much, my husband.
I was right on board with the ambulance but thanks to Mr. Hiland, I will change my vote. I did not know about the Capital Region Fire Compact. We don’t need to spend money where it isn’t needed.
Mr. Hiland will you, please speak up about this at the meeting? I fear we are going to get just 1 side of the story and we don’t need that. You changed my vote you can change others.
I am telling my friends about this website but many of them don’t participate in town meetings because they too long and boring. That is my point why they should visit this website.
I was unable to attend the TM. I heard that that several of those voters who exercised their constitutional right for a ballot box vote were threatened. One female voter in particular was looking of a Bow police officer (try Dunkin Donuts) for an escort because she was being threatened. No officers were to be found although there were some there. Another ballot box supporter was taunted the entire time he exercised his rights.
Seems that the minority that control Bow were upset because they had made all the decisions for voters without consulting voters and were upset that it wasn’t a “done deal”.
Interesting. As someone who was in the past routinely threatened I can sympathize.
I thought town meeting was so sacred that SB2 would destroy it? Obviously it’s sacred because many can’t make it, that is just why they don’t want — ballot voting by the majority
This situation in Bow is exactly why we need SB2 and exactly why the intimidators don’t want it.
This website should be advertised far and wide. It’s the only place you will get the inside story and truth about what is going on in Bow. You certainly won’t get it by consulting the dead tree media like the vomitor.
Is that the vomitor as in the Communist Vomitor also known to the suckers who pay for it the Concord Monitor?
To back up up my statement that this website puts out more useful info for all of Bow, I went to the Bow PTO website and saw that they only had 5,000 something hits where this website has 3 times that amount and
I don’t think this website has been around for very long, unlike the PTO.
Continue giving us useful info and we will come.
Well you have to give credit to those who provide the content… Most people spend a little time online each day, so this is not a monumental task, but seeing that the information gets out to others is a very laudable effort.
taxed2death said: “What I didn’t like was Imse’s treatment of those who signed the petition for secret ballot. What he did was pure intimidation. The law states that 5 voters can ask for a ballot vote once he got to the 5th voter he could stop but oh no he went on. It would be easy to come up with a way to check if there check if someone was here with out the intimidation factor.”
Yeah and these are the same people who would subject you to a long drawn out town meeting rather than letting you vote under SB2. They didn’t mind doing this for a purpose. What hypocrites.
I am not happy with Moderator Imse. He allowed Leon Kenison to personally attack Selectman Keane during the meeting. Like most people are saying on this website; it depends who is making the infraction for Imse to take action. (I sound like Jesse Jackson) Also a lot of people at the meeting were saying that Leon Kenison came across as pompous arse . What does everyone else think?
What I found most irritating about the second portion of the Town Meeting was the demeaning and condescending spiel by selectman Crisp after a mere $100K was cut from a proposed $249K warrant. He took the microphone and explained how many hours of hard work by dedicated townspeople was reflected in all of the proposed warrant articles and implied that we should regard their figures as “sacred.” Excuse me, but I thought the concept of the meeting was to deliberate. I don’t care how many people or how many hours were spent to arrive at these numbers! I am not compelled to agree with them by anyone.
Did anyone notice how rude the Crisp, Judd & Kennison trio reacted to Jim Hoffman’s powerpoint? Not one of them turned to view the screen. Judd had that lip curling sneer that spoke volumes about his attitude to anyone who does not agree with him. Crisp was doing his usual yawning. Either he’s bored or he doesn’t get enough sleep. It seems that anyone disagreeing with this trio is “out to lunch.” Spending is not an issue with any one of these three. If their taxes double, so what? They simply don’t care. They can afford it. I can’t.
Stand by for your December tax bill. The state and county taxes are going to be much higher so even though the school and municipal taxes are allegedly to remain the same. When you read your tax bill you will require CPR perhaps provided by EMTs in our new ambulance.
Please take the time to scan page 122 of the 2008 Town of Bow Annual Report. I know that this household and many others are dragging down the median household income. Those making that kind of money ($97,400) probably can afford a doubling of taxes and don’t care. On the other hand, there are many wealthy folks who DO care about their poorer neighbors. Unfortunately the school and municipal budgets are frivolous in these trying economic times. The majority, sadly, does not care about the retired widow, a single mom or dad, the elderly in general, etc. A state income tax would have these “town fathers” calling foul but it would make us retirees very happy or at least happier than the present unfair system of taxation. The poorer people are paying a much higher percentage of household income for taxes than the rich. It
will remain that way until someone gets smart and eliminates “THE Pledge” once and for all. Perhaps State Rep Walz would be kind enough to introduce an income tax bill. Harry would sign the bill it if his wife did.
Obviously, at the present we can only follow the current law which lays out an unfair taxation means. What is astonishing is that neither the school board nor certain members of the select board chose to consider a reduction of taxes at the local level so that, at the very least, when the December tax bills arrive, the amount requested (demanded) might be the same or less than last year’s bill in light of the fact that both state and county taxes are guaranteed to increase. It won’t. Count on it. If the economy worsens……well, I don’t even want to go there.
@retiredvet who said: “It will remain that way until someone gets smart and eliminates “The Pledge” once and for all. Perhaps State Rep Walz would be kind enough to introduce an income tax bill. Harry would sign the bill if his wife did.”
GASP! You can’t be serious? The PLEDGE is the only reason we don’t have BOTH high property taxes AND an income tax. Believe me, NO OTHER STATE has had their property taxes lowered because of an income or sales tax. (Name me one and I’ll buy you dinner) If you did your homework, you would know that those GSFTC people pushing to ‘end the pledge’ (which they can’t because we still have freedom of speech last I knew) are funded by the UN who don’t care about your property taxes… they just want centralized control payable to them. You can’t seriously tell me you let them fool you into thinking this is the answer?
The answer is to get more people out to town meeting (but if they block SB2 you won’t be able to) and turn out people like these elitists that run Bow town meetings in a most rude and disrespectful manner.
to Teacher says:
I’m a conservative as are you….I believe. Please let me know of a FAIR way to raise taxes. I have never promoted the enactment of an income tax but I am looking at it differently now that my income is fixed. As I stated my household is one of those that is reducing the median income here in Bow.
As time passes, the dollar becomes less and less valuable. My taxes are now almost half of my SS check. My 401K is now in the tank and it will take years to return to its highest value. Of course, I would EXPECT the powers to be would lower the property taxes IF an income tax was passed. Of course, I would not support an income tax IF property taxes were not significantly lowered!!!I am totally against a sales tax because, again, the rich will pay the same fee as someone on wellfare…..it’s exactly the same as our archaic property tax rate in that the less wealthy (poor ?) now shoulder a disproportionate “donation” to the town, state, school and county. BTW, I want nothing to to with the UN as it serves no purpose at any level.
In retrospect I shouldn’t have mentioned an income tax as the main thrust of my blog was to focus on the actions of certain selectmen. BTW the selectmen are now researching, planning, etc for a new $12 million
safety center. It has every bell and whistle, no pun intended, that one could imagine. This is another BHS in the making. Can we afford it? Why is it that Bow has to have the BEST of everything? Few in power here ever consider an average building when only the BEST will do. This is exactly the out-of-line thought process that is prevalent here in town. The slogan seems to be “we have to have the very best” or nothing at all.
Reducing property taxes as the system now exists still does not lessen the disproportionate burden placed on the less wealthy taxpayers. Perhaps the levied property taxes could be raised on a scale according to median household income? I don’t know. I just want lower taxes especially in these terrible economic times. Yes, I can move, I know that. And I will very soon. When the economy starts to recover I will be selling (or trying anyway) my house.
SB2 would certainly help the out-of-control spending in Bow and I am for it, hook, line and sinker. But is this the ONLY way to lower our taxes?
I’m simply fed up with rising taxes!!
If anyone has an idea on a fair taxation reform, please step forward.
Retired, I am with teacher. I know an income tax will not lower your property taxes it will just give the spenders another source of revenue to spend from.
What has to happen in Bow is that all the sleepy people in Bow who complain about their tax bills finally wake up. There needs to be a mechanism to wake them up and stay awake. This website is great but it is clear it is not reaching enough people.
How can we reach more retired people?
My tax burden is about HALF of my pension.. so I hear you.
But, if we had an income tax, I would have to move.. because the property tax would never be lowered, NEVER.
SO it would be the nail in the coffin for people like us.
As for this safety center, it’s about control, not about need.
Folks, I know that we’re one the same side regarding taxes. I guess with my suggestion of an income tax I assumed that property taxes would be lowered. Naturally one should not assume. It’s wishful thinking on my part. A friend of mine delved into the issue of a blue-collar retiree moving to Maine from NH. Even with the sales and income taxes, he and his wife would be better off by moving to Maine where property taxes are much more reasonable. Just a thought…….only IF one wanted to move.
The older taxpayers in Bow feel defeated by the “system” IMHO. They (we) have tried our darndest to reduce spending and it just isn’t happening as the “newbies” and “schoolies” want everything no matter what the cost. I think that the voter apathy can be compared to the Christians being thrown to the lions. Why fight when you don’t have a prayer? Too many of the spenders have no regard or sympathy for a struggling neighbor. Friends here in town that I’ve know for decades don’t bother attending the school and town meetings because, as they say, “What’s the use? They’re going to get their way no matter what. I’m not going to waste my time.” This is exactly the attitude that present town officials hope will continue! I don’t know how to change it.
Has anyone seen a reasonably priced house for sale in Bow? I doubt it.
Contractors are building high-end housing only as there is little profit in erecting an ordinary single story ranch or a small cape. The only new houses here in Bow start at $750,000 so it’s very obvious what type of person is going to purchase it. The wealthy are now running the town and, of course, they cater to the whims of their own kind.
It seems as though the taxpayers residing in the 55 and older communities are just as apathetic as those residing in older homes. How can we reach them is valid question. I wish that there was a simple answer.