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” * More than half *of NH town voters vote under SB2
* Only about a third of New Hampshire towns operate
under a traditional town meeting”
Interesting mishmash of statistics and a bit misleading. By qualifying the first remark as “town voters” we can say 50% of the voters are under SB2. We then switch to a third of the towns operate under traditional town meeting. However, since a third of the voters are not included in the first comparison it really is also a third voting under SB2. Yes, 33% if half of 66%. So, I guess we can say that 50% of the NH town voters vote under a traditional town meeting also*.
‘There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.’ – attributed to Disraeli
* From New Hampshire Center for Public Policy Studies –
However, as of 2007, only one-third of the state’s residents lived in a town with a “traditional” town meeting; one third live in municipalities where a city council has governing authority and one third live in communities that have adopted SB2 or another form of the “official ballot” form of governance which replaces town meeting with a ballot process.
APOVinBOW says:
‘There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.’ – attributed to Disraeli
This is wrong. The truth to the matter is that there are really 4 kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, statistics and lawyers……especially the ones also in politics!
RLB
Not sure what point you are attempting to make. If it is a joke, sorry it went over my head.
O My God I missed the public hearing. I was busy on school vacation activities but were watching the sign by BMS (I go by there every day) and I didn’t see anything on the sign. There was something advertised about a public hearing on PayT. What ever that is.
Was this the slide presented at the public hearing? It is fantastic
Apovin Bow, this is not a statistical deviation thing look on slide 5 it has the raw information right in it. One would have to be blinded by their agenda to think Cities need to be added into the mix. Cities just can’t function under a Town Meeting type system. You can only use towns to make a fair comparison. I guess you don’t want a fair comparison.
Sorry for not going to the public hearing. I am going to let others know about this presentation.
Thank-you BCC
bowsportsfan,
“I guess you don’t want a fair comparison.” Guess you better re-read the post. I am for a fair comparison – think that is the point I was making.
The statement “Only about a third of New Hampshire towns operate
under a traditional town meeting”. According New Hampshire Center for Public Policy Studies about a third of New Hampshire towns operate under
SB2. The “only” attempts to make the town meeting third seem less than those under SB2. However, “under SB2″ is also “only” a third. Seems to me a third equals a third. Therefore both sides can claim 50%.
In any case, the arguments for or against SB2 do not hinge on these 2 simple statements.
Like Disraeli, I am merely pointing out the problem of relying on statistics as justification.
By all means encourage all the folks you know to check out the presentation. Just realize it is designed to lead you to a certain conclusion.
APO,
It seems like you are distorting the facts. Thanks for the alert Bowsportsfan she shows that slide #5 shows the raw numbers. Like Bowsportsfan says, that you can’t include cities you need to compare towns against towns.
People don’t let APO destort the facts. NH has population of about 2 Million towns make up a little less than 900,000 the rest is cities. You can’t include cities in this data.
APO are you that niave? Every presentation at the school and town meetings are designed to lead you to a certain conclusion. I have never seen a School Board or Selctman presentation that didn’t do just that.
I am being kind when I say niave.
RLB has it right about lies. Expect more lies from the opposition to SB2. I certainly do.
yeswecan,
My only naivety appears to be in thinking that I could point out that the second point concerning thirds applied equally to both towns under SB2 and under Town Meeting. Also that the merits or detriments to SB2 are not revealed in the percentage of towns currently under SB2.
Additionally, I have not presented any facts other than the statement (repeated below for ease of reference) from New Hampshire Center for Public Policy Studies which was cited in the slide.
Actually on more careful reading, it states “adopted SB2 or another form of the “official ballot” . The inclusion of “or another form…” indicates that there are actually less than a third that have adopted SB2.
New Hampshire Center for Public Policy Studies:
“However, as of 2007, only one-third of the state’s residents lived in a town with a “traditional” town meeting; one third live in municipalities where a city council has governing authority and one third live in communities that have adopted SB2 or another form of the “official ballot” form of governance which replaces town meeting with a ballot process.”
Sorry APO you are dealing with educated people on this website. I think most people realize that cities can’t use town meetings (Look at the name it states town meetings not city meetings) so cities must be excluded. Can’t you even be honest with yourself?
Towns and schools have the choice of Town Meeting or SB2 or (rarely a town charter) and once towns and schools go SB2 they don’t go back (schools) and rarely go back towns. Only really small towns have gone back from SB2. Remember we can try out SB2 with no harm because we have the option to go back. The opposition to SB2 doesn’t even want us to try it because they know we won’t go back because we will like it so much.
to yeswecan:
Well stated. Thank you!! What those opposing SB2 fear the most is a loss
of power to push through their agendas at the annual town and school meetings.
As opponents to SB2 they also rob those people (not able to attend these meetings) the very right to vote. It matters not to them if these taxpayers are in the military, on vacation, are ill, are working, etc. Voting is a right of EVERY American and we should do all that we can to accommodate those unable to attend.
I voted in every national election by absentee ballot when I served this country but I had no voice in local matters. Of course, SB2 wasn’t even a term back then. I do believe that SB2 will give them a sense that the Town of Bow really does care about their votes.
SB2 is not a change in town government as Mr. Imse imagines.
SB2 only changes the way we will vote.