The Bow Citizen’s Coalition (BCC) encourages individual citizen participation in Bow government and we urge those who are concerned about their high property tax to attend this meeting. The purpose of the BCC website is to empower the voter with knowledge and perhaps a little entertainment value. Please take a look at the Bow School district meeting bingo game. Go to the meeting, fight for lower taxes and have some fun at the same time.
That’s a hoot………sounds like the school district meetings I have attended.
This is shameful. Congratulations on making a mockery of town meeting process. I, who, until recently, did not have the privileged of engaging in locally-run, direct democracy, am embarrassed. How can anyone so vehemently defends the rights of town voters and simultaneously make a mockery of it. Moreover, the author’s political agenda is not lost on me.
This is both fantastically cynical and juvenile. Please don’t forgot the serious business that will be done on March 13. Leave the games at home, please.
I printed out mine today. With the big spenders’ panic going on I expect to get a real quick Bingo. I hope a lot of people come and put a stop to his unfair rule.
The people rule
Tax tired and yeswecan, I respectfully disagree that this game is either a “hoot” or in any way appropriate. The business of town meeting is serious. This bingo game, despite whatever the intentions, is both a cynical and juvenile attempt to undermine the important work that is done at those meetings.
Given the state of the economy and the purported fsical crisis that Bow currently faces, I, personally, am going to be deeply involved in listening to the machinations of democracy. On Friday, I will certainly not be playing games.
publius,
Glad to see you are now able to post. I am the person who developed the Bow Bingo game and it is too bad you are not happy with it. Let me give you a little background. Like a lot of other people, I am afraid to death to speak in public, or writing a letter to the editor. I see what I call patriots risk public ridicule by people who have little tolerance for someone else’s opinion. I could be wrong but you appear to be one of the intolerant but your opinion is welcome here.
The Bingo game was written because I saw the school moderator come close to take away a voters right to vote because he did not agree with him. You may be just out of school but do you know how serious it is to take someone’s right to vote away? At last year’s meeting I overheard discussions between two school officials that I know wasn’t legal and I was too afraid to speak up. Yes shame on me.
I am proud of the Bow Bingo game.
I love it… it’s a very creative way to ‘teach’ the public what can and does go on in our sometimes illegal meetings. publius, don’t tell me you are against creativity in teaching?
Who’da thunk it…
publius,
Have you ever been to a Bow School District meeting and you think Moderator Hatem is fair? Wow. I think the Bow Bingo game is a parody to bring awareness to the unfairness at the meeting and will treat it as such. Yes the meeting is serious business and yes we are in a fiscal crisis because of too much spending. My guess is on Friday you will be voting yes for every article, but you say you are concerned about the fiscal crisis.
Well thanks to not having SB2 you will be able to see this person in action.
taxed2death, with all due respect, please do not assume how I will vote. And yes I have been to Bow School District meetings. Moreover, provided I have been in town when they were held, I have been to every single town since I have been eligible to vote.
As to the perceived unfairness, there are, unfortunately, those who tend to set a poor tone, right from the offset of some of these meetings. This is unfortunate, and leads to a tense environment.
Moreover, if you find the meetings to be unfair, appeal to one’s sense of reason, or duty to the democratic purpose, rather than vitriolic letters to the editors, bread and circus parodies, and hostility. The taxpayers of Bow are reasonable, fair-minded people, who consider those who respond in kind. At least, so has been my experience.
Back from vacation.
I have been to only a few meetings and as I read the Bow Bingo game I have seen much of this happen. regardless of what publius thinks I am going to bring my Bow Bingo game.
publius, you think this is shamless have you seen what school officials are doing with taxpayer’s money?
Touché bowsportsfan!
And some of the things going on in the education industry are indeed shameless waste of the taxpayers’ money. I know this for a fact.
Paul, with all due respect, please don’t refer to me as one of the “intolerant.” I abhor intolerance.
I do not see how playing a game enhances the town meeting’s dialogue, be it publicly at the microphone or privately among those whom you sit around. In our actions, we speak to the values we espouse and aspirations. Rather, I worry that it makes town meeting look like a joke– a game. I cannot condone it.
But not to be too dramatic, thanks for taking care of my posting problem. As you can see, I’m taking full advantage of it! I’m sure that will lead to groans of many. But, hey, I appreciate the opportunity to engage in a dialogue with similarly-minded and concerned citizens.
Paul,
No one will see me at the microphone, I am also afraid to death of public speaking.
Welcome aboard publius, you sure add a little spice to the website. Perhaps vacation is over in Bow.
Bow sports fan,
Maybe we can take a public speaking class together? On second thought no!!!!
Haha. Thanks, Paul! I’m glad to know I can add a little more excitement to an already very exciting group!
At the recent school meeting many of the warrant articles were voted upon by a voice vote. How can that be legal, ethical, moral, or whatever when non-taxpayers were scattered throughout? It certainly makes one wonder just who is making the rules. I’m surprised that someone hasn’t sued the school or the moderator.
retiredvet,
Robert’s Rules allows for voice voting. In particular, the rules state: “A vote by voice is the regular method of voting on any motion that does not require more than a majority vote for its adoption. In taking a voice vote, the chair puts the question by saying, “The question is on the adoption of the motion to [or "that"] … [repeating or clearly identifying the motion]. Those in favor of the motion, say aye. [Pausing for response,] Those opposed, say no.”
If you wanted, you could have moved to take the vote by secret ballot by going up to the microphone and simply stating “I move we take this vote by secret ballot.” If it was seconded and affirmed by a majority of voters, the vote could have been conducted as a secret ballot.
Robert’s Rules of Order of order were first published in 1876, and have been used, often in varied form, since then.
As to suing the moderator: for what? I’m not sure that you would have any cause of action to sue on. And what injury could you claim? Please clarify.
publius:
FYI: The school moderator does NOT use Robert’s Rules. As a matter of fact, neither does the town moderator. Both use variations, naturally, but the moderator knew the audience was “loaded” by the schoolies and should have conducted the meeting FAIRLY.
So, if I had asked for a secret ballot, how would a voice response of either “yes” or “no” been fair with non-taxpayers in the audience? This is exactly my point. The only fair way to have voted that evening would have been by secret ballot unless, of course, non-taxpayers were banned. It’s important for the youngsters to see the democratic process in action so they should be encouraged to attend. But how do any of us know that they did or did not orally vote? How many teachers who are not Bow residents were in attendance? One entire balcony section consisted of non-registered Bow voters. How many adults from outside of Bow were in the audience? The moderator should not have taken one vote by oral means! Do you see my point?
I don’t believe that I mentioned the word “injury” when talking about suing. But that would be the first word out of a lawyer’s mouth, wouldn’t it?
My suit would merely be to question the open unfairness of the voting process as I mentioned above. It’s all about a level playing field which did not exist that evening. If you think that it was, then that’s your view, and you’re entitled to it. My view is different but is shared by many with whom I have spoken.
You didn’t mention how you really feel about non-taxpayers attending this meeting where $24M was at stake. Instead of looking at it from a lawyer’s viewpoint, look at it from logical and fair one.
retiredvet,
As to your first paragraph, I had acknowledged in my post that Robert’s Rules are varied. As to your comment that the moderator knew the auditorium was “loaded” with “schoolies,” I wasn’t aware of the moderator’s omniscience, but at the same time, I’m not really sure what a “schoolie” is either.
As to this point, you could have made a motion to amend the rules. You place all duties for the conducting of the meeting on the moderator, but you have just as much power to alter its structure as does he. To complaint about the format of the meeting when you have the power to make modifications is sour grapes. You are empowered to suggest modifications; however, the onus is on you, and not the moderator. As to the second point: would you prefer that non-voters be prohibited from attendance at the meeting?
If you want to sue, you must have an injury, otherwise you have no grounds for suit. A suit based on a general sense of unfairness isn’t a cognizable injury, unless you think you can apply a 14th amendment argument. Are you advocating that you received unequal protection of the law, or were deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process of law? I am simply asking what that injury is. As to the implicit inquiry that I am a lawyer: thank you, but I am not.
As to your final comment about how I feel about non-taxpayers attending the meeting: I think that in addition to money being at stake, there were jobs, livelihood, and our collective future at stake. A non-resident Bow teacher has an interest in the annual school budget. While this doesn’t give them a right to vote, I would abhor the thought that they would not be allowed to, at the very least, view the proceedings.
publius:
WOW. You just don’t get it. Except for your last sentence, that is.
retiredvet,
I answered all of your questions is as thoughtful and reasonable manner as seemed prudent. I’m saddened to see that you are unwilling or incapable of doing this same.
Publius: Well if you don’t know what a “schoolie” is, do you know what a “Paulie” is? If you do, then you’ve answered one of your own questions.
You, by the same token, have not answered all of my questions.
How would you suggest the means by which the votes are taken when the
audience is filled with non-taxpayers? This is the crux of my entire debate.
You tell me how it should be done without using hindsight. Try and be FAIR.
And, please, use common sense and not your legal background.
Schoolies: Vicious tax and spenders willing to sell their grandmothers and libel their best friends, so their kids can have anything they didn’t have; indulgent types, yuppies, faux ivy leaguers who think anything that cost money must be good.
Anyone who doesn’t know what a schoolie is, must surely BE one. ;-O
retiredvet,
The moderator, in close votes, required hand votes. We had bracelets to ensure that only registered votes would be counted. The town went through practical and reasonable to give adequate enfranchisement. This also seems like a reasonable option in the absence of any alternative given. I am unsure of how this isn’t fair. The moderator is not a mind reader. If people want a different form of voting they must take the initiative. Passive democracy is never as encompassing as a more vibrant democracy.
And, no, I’ve no idea what a “Paulie” is either. I suppose I’m out of the loop.
Teacher,
Another fine personal attack, sir. Kudos to you, kudos. You never cease to both lower the bar of intelligent dialogue on this site and surprise all with your frank anti-intellectualism. Your septic fear and prejudice for those different than yourself is a philosophy I pray doesn’t bleed into your classroom.
Not a personal attack but an observation really. I am hardly an anti-intellectual, I just don’t use my brain to BS people. I speak 4 languages and have 3 degrees. I have had two careers in my lifetime, working in my third now.
People who know me and like me, and that is most people, know I am the least prejudice of anyone they know. I only fear ignorance and smoke and mirrors.. you know, like people robbing us blind while telling us it’s for our own good? Now that’s prejudice!
Intellectualism is never snobbery and never means being of touch. For example, the single most important factor to students’ successes are a cohesive family life. In order to have that life their parents must be secure in their ability to provide. Better that the kids not have some thing in school (that is likely not needed anyway) but are able to go home to a stable family life with parents not distressed by the fact they can’t provide, is more important to the well being and learning of a child than fancy buildings and elitists programs like IB.
I know this, as I’ve seen it.